An Interview with Roger Warnes Founder of SLO Roadrunners

Roger Warnes founded the SLO Roadrunners and Triathlon Club in 1976 and is currently the Head Cross Country and Distance Coach at Atascadero High School. He was a great athlete and is a phenomenal coach who has helped runners, swimmers, cyclists, and triathletes - young and old - achieve their best performances. This interview with Roger Warnes is about his experiences with running and coaching and took place in August of 2019.

Pictured left to right: Atascadero High School seniors of 2021 Kyle Sanchez, Ava Harrison, Faith Rocha, Bella Otter, Anna Archibald, and Owen Fang with Head Coach Roger Warnes in the middle.

What do you like most about running?

Running can change how you feel physically in your heart and lungs and fitness. It's something that can make your life a better place to live.

How did you get started with running?

About 12-13 years old I started running. At first, I thought I was going to be a baseball player so I went a little faster with my running for baseball, but then I started to find I could beat people who were actually running. So, then I started working out a little bit more at 12 and 13. I was probably running about 4 miles almost every day and kind of went from there until it got to a lot more mileage and eventually up to 100 mpw.

What made you decide to run professionally?

I never got to run professionally, but I got to run at the top of that Junior National Cross Country deal. Would I have liked to run professionally? Well, when I was younger there really wasn't professional track and field in those days. You weren't getting paid, so what you were doing in those days was you were running because you loved what it could do for your life, you were good at it, and you liked the people you were meeting. There wasn't a bunch of money involved, but there was always that thought in the back of your mind that maybe the Olympics are there and maybe I can run at that level and that is why you kept doing it. People didn't do it because they thought they were going to make money [back then]. Now I'm not sure. I think some people do it because they think they can make money. In those days, it was always the Olympics or a championship or to run with people who you thought could make you better at some level and that's why you want to go do it.

What would you do if you were not a professional runner?

Well, I don't have to answer that one. What would I do if I was not a professional coach? I'd be a barber, or I'd be a photographer. What I used to say would be a lot of fun would be to open a barbershop and just shoot the breeze with people all day, find out about their lives and think positively about their lives. That is what I used to say all the time.

Tell me about your training?

5,368 miles in 1 year. I started training at the age of 12, by the time I was 14, I was probably running quite a few miles per week, but certainly by the time I was 18 or 19 [years old], I was running 90 mpw. Some days that would be 1x/day, somedays that would be 2x/day, but somedays were 3x/day.

So, you would get up in the morning and one of my morning runs was running from Cal Poly all the way over here to the Laguna Jr. High track when nothing else was out here. I would generally do two 1-mile repeats at a fairly good clip, but not too hard and then I'd run back to Cal Poly. Generally, that would be 10 or 11 miles in the morning. [For] an early morning run sometimes I'd do 8 [miles], sometimes I'd do 9, rarely under 6. If it was a 3-a-day workout, I would come back sometime around noon or 1 [pm] and I'd just go out and jog 3 or 4 miles. Then in the afternoon, usually it would be another 6 miles, it might be 4, could be 3, generally no speed work on a day I decided I was going to run 3x. On a 2-a-day workout - yes, I would run in the morning as I just talked about and then I'd come back at 3:30 [p.m.] or 4 o'clock, whatever time practice was going to be that day and run whatever the speed work was and usually that would end up being 6 or 7 miles. So, if I knew I was going to run 7 miles of speed work, the morning run would be closer to 8 or 9 [miles]. So, you can see that would be 15, 16, or 17 miles.

I'd only take a day off if I was so hurt, overly tired, or sick - rarely if I was overly tired though, but I'd only do it if I was hurt or sick. Never a day off. That is why I can understand what [others] have gone through in the past. [Young runners would say,] "Why am I taking a day off?" At that point, I am super boy. "I am 18 or 19 years old! I feel great!" Then you have well-meaning coaches telling them, "You are doing great! Keep doing this. That is how you get to that next level."

Do you think you would be successful doing half the mileage?

Absolutely without question, but it might be 3/4's of that. It might be 1/2 of that. It might be under 1/2 of that. I still came back [for] one race after my Achilles was slightly repaired. I still ran under 15 minutes for 3 miles after just riding my bike, swimming and only 2 weeks of running. So, if you are capable of doing that [running less mileage, you can still be successful]. I probably ran 25 or 30 miles [in those 2 weeks I was making my come back] and was riding a bike. That is what set off in my mind that whole thing about cross training and how to start bloody cross training.

Yes, absolutely you can be successful doing 1/2 of that [mileage], but some people will need to do 60%, some people will need to do 40% of that, but absolutely, especially when you mix in the cross training, especially when you mix in the aqua jogging, [and] mix in sensible stationary cycling. You throw in some upper body weights and some other things. You can certainly do that.

How much of your training is done independently/alone vs. supervised/with a group?

Back in the day, I would say probably the training that was done independently was at least 50%, if not a little bit more - but you would run with the guys. Alone time then was probably at least 25% of the time. Time when you are training on a track with your coach or talking with your coach is probably what is left over - 30% or so.

How do you prepare mentally?

That is a really good question. Well, I tended to overcook myself - so - I would visualize the race and think about the race, but then I would always do something stupid. I had a 3-mile race on the track once and that morning I went running for about 5 miles. That was really stupid. So, for about the first probably 7, 8, 9 laps of that race I was in the front doing great and then all of a sudden, I wasn't in the front doing great and then I was in about the middle. So, I would always overcook myself a little bit. I wish I would've sat there and visualized the race and did a light jog and then have gone to the meet that afternoon and warmed up and done some things.

What I tell kids to do is to visualize at least three different race plans on how the race is going to go. Generally, I'll give them a plan if we are running a 1 mile or 2 miles of what we are doing and I'll say this is the ideal plan, but you need to go home and you need to think about what I am going to do if somebody busts a move at some point, or this guy moves or I'm boxed in. I like to have people do that a couple days before - running through the plan and how we're going to execute the plan and visualize themselves doing it while perhaps we are still practicing some pace technique on the track. We are not doing anything really hard - certainly not anything a week before a big race.

Everybody prepares differently mentally, and some people are really good at it. My mental preparation was really believing in myself. I knew how fast I could run. I knew how fast I wanted to run, but again - running insecurity - a lot of people have that. Pretty soon you're doing your warmup too fast, you're running in the morning like an idiot, or you're doing something else. So, you really have to overcome running insecurity and a lot of times that means you have to sit by yourself and have visualization technique and some meditation technique. Most runners that are obsessive compulsive have to be taught how to do that because sitting still is not something that they do well and just thinking about a race within about a minute and a half they want to get up and move around and start doing something. So, they have to be taught to do that.

Define your easy run.

Well anything slower than 6 minutes a mile used to be considered kind of a junkie run, so you were always trying to run 6 minutes or under 7 for the long run. As a coach your easy run and how long are dependent upon who you are, your age, your individual maturity, and again your ability and level of common sense.

As a dude, the longest I ever ran (we did this a lot slower than 6 minutes a mile) in one day was 34 miles. You know you learn pretty quick whether you are going to be that kind of runner because that gets you pretty good at running long and slow. Generally, long runs I would not go over 14 or 15 miles, but again you are trying to nail the 6's all along the way.

For an athlete you sort of have to learn what kind of puppy dog you are. If you're a Dachshund, you are not trying to run 6-minute pace for 14 or 15 miles or [even] 10 miles. If you are a German Shepherd, you are probably not. You got to figure out what you need and play to that rather than try to play to something else that you read that somebody else did.

Have you ever run your easy run too long or too hard?

Well, you always know the next day. Generally, you'll know 4 or 5 hours after the run. In my day we did not do a lot of icing, so you would know pretty quickly. Now the next question should be: What did you do about it the next day? I still went out and ran. You didn't cut back. You didn't necessarily take your heart rate. You got with the guys that were going to run the next day and you did your run. So, again that plays into that whole thing that the only time you are taking a day off is when you are hurt or sick - which is not the way to do it.

What is your opinion on 2-a-days now?

It depends on the age and running maturation of the individual.

So, if you have a 14- or 15-year-old freshman or sophomore girl, I don't care what they are doing, I'm not doing that because there are too many girls that burn out before they get to be seniors in high school or they burn out in their first year in college and they can't run.

Boys - again, it all depends on what the maturation level is, how many miles they have been running, and what injuries they have had in the past. My philosophy is that it is on an individual basis who is ready to do that.

That is why coaching is still an art because you have to look at it and you have to say, "I don't think this guy can..." I know he can do it with his heart and lungs -- there's never any question that anybody can do it with their heart and lungs -- it is whether their legs are going to hold up and whether they are going to run faster in 2 years than they are running today. A lot of them are going to run faster in 2 years than they are running today.

A lot of these kids in this area that are in high school that go off to college to these other schools in particular, they are there for 1 or 2 years and they are either quitting or they are out, and they are not running very fast. If you are getting slower in college, there is something wrong. So, I do have a philosophy on 2-a-days - if you are ready for it, I don't mind sticking it in there, but again that is not a long-term proposition. That is going to be for a certain [number] of base-building weeks but we are not going to continue to do that [long-term].

One of the great things that Lydiard used to say is that once you start - you do your base period for as long as you can, then you run hills for 8-12 weeks (you are not doing any speed work and you are not trying to double up on the long run) - you are trying to keep things fairly consistent. Then you get into your speed work program for prep for the season. That is generally 6-8, maybe a 10-week program that you are doing, but while you are doing that, you are not still trying to run hills and you are not still trying to run 20 miles long - you shouldn't be - (he had some people doing that so I should not say that, but you shouldn't be).

Then once you start to race, you're just trying to keep the ball rolling - like the big beach ball going down a hill - it's picking up speed - you don't have to kick it real hard where it ends up on the side of the mountain. So, you are just doing things that sharpen up your effort as you move forward on that. The problem is that most people don't build enough base, they run too many hills, they run too much concrete, sidewalk, asphalt, and then they try and dump speed work while they are running hills, and still running 20 mile long runs. If you do that, that is a really bad move.

How does the weather affect your training?

There is no such thing as bad weather, just soft runners. You would go out and run no matter what. Usually, I'll go out and run in the rain or whatever. Although I remember once I ran 6 miles in a gym. I wouldn't recommend that to anybody.

The worst thing to run in was wind. I could take heat because I was a whole whopping 135 lbs. The wind you had to fight through. The heat I was pretty good with. The cold I was always good with, but again it depends on how much you were drinking and in those days it was not very much. There was not a lot of thought given to that necessarily. It was almost a sign of weakness if you decided you were going to be drinking too much. I always think about that when going out for a 12 mile run. You also have to realize that I did not train at climates that got above - well once in a while - it would be 90 degrees or once in a while it would be 85 degrees, but I was not in anything where it was 85 degrees at 4 am or 112 degrees at 10 am. I didn't have to do that.

What are your thoughts on altitude training?

Well I think that has changed now. You used to be able to go up there for 2 weeks and all of a sudden you were good to go, but now we know it takes a hell of a lot longer than that for altitude training to work. I like the fact that people are now sleeping in the tents and doing most of their training at sea level. I think that is a good idea. I don't think it's a bad idea to go up and do your longer, slower runs at altitude and be up there for a certain period of time, but if you are up there for a lengthy period of time in general, you are unable to do speed work at the quality level you need to, you are unable to run the pace work at the quality level that you need to, so you come back down and you still might be a little [better], but you're not going to gain much. You still have to be able to run the speed work and you have to be able to run pace.

Some place I read about Shorter and Prefontaine going on one of Steve's first runs at altitude and (I have to ask Linda [Prefontaine, Steve's sister] about this) how that was the only thing that he was begging off of was the first couple times he was running at altitude and then he ran a mile for time on some track and he ran 4:10. This is a guy running who was running 3:54 and now he's running 4:10 or so. It takes a while to get used to it and you have to be willing to run slow. How many competitive runners are willing to run really slow for 3 or 4 weeks at altitude just to get acclimated to it so you can do other stuff? It's hard to say and that is why a lot of these people will stay up there for 3 or 4 days and then they will drive down to San Bernardino or Riverside and do workouts on the track and then go back up to Big Bear and run slower and then come back down and they were constantly doing that for a long time. I forget the coach’s name. He had a lot of success with his female runners doing that back and forth up and down the hill. That is why now a lot of those guys have gotten those tents that they are sleeping in, and they are training. I think that like you said, the jury is still out on that, but I think that it is the way things are going.

What do you think about weight training?

I think upper body weights are great. I think if you are going to do lower body weight training you better be an 800-meter runner or a 400, 200, 100-meter runner. I think doing weights for your legs can be a good idea, but it has to be unbelievably supervised and it can't be that heavy. Because our calf is one of our primary movers if you are running correctly and you run faster, you are using your calf a lot. If you are doing a bunch of toe raises, calf raises, squats, and lunges - [these are] things that affect your calf adversely. We are not looking to build size as a distance runner.

I always give my runners a list of 12-18 exercises in the weight room. Most of them are upper body stuff and I tell them not to be in there longer than 50 minutes. We are not trying to be a professional weightlifter. It is really easy to be in there for an hour and a half and then to get in there with your buddies and you're a dude and you decide you are going to bench press 225 lbs. even though you weigh 170 and all of a sudden you go do your primary sport, which is running, and your back is bugging you.

What are your thoughts on cross-training?

When we talk about how swimming is good cross training for running, it is absolutely tremendous for your heart and lungs. You are going to come back out of the pool if you've been injured and you've been aqua jogging and swimming ready to go with your heart and lungs, but your legs are not going to be ready to go. [Even though] you have the endurance level to still run 6 or 7 miles, doesn’t mean that you run 4, 5, or 6 miles coming off an injury. You have to start back with baby steps - maybe every other day. Maybe you are only running a mile and a half, maybe you are only running less than 2 miles every other day for the first couple of weeks and then you start to build from there.

That is the hard part that people misunderstand about cross training - they try and come back with it because they are still in really good shape with their heart and lungs, but they push their legs. They will run conservatively for 3 [miles] and then push their legs for 12 miles on one day and then all of a sudden say, "Well, gee why am I hurt again?"

We do a lot of cross training. I believe in cross training. That's when the light went on for me when I could no longer run anymore, and I finally got a steel frame bike with a bunch of guys and their goal was to go either 40 miles in 2 hours or 20 miles in an hour. Which now is nothing because you've got these light bikes, but you try doing that on a heavy steel bike - that was something! I always swam as a young person, so I got back into swimming and found that - boy that was amazing to be just a little under 15 minutes for 3 miles when you have not been running at all is nuts! A big light went on for me as far as my coaching career when that happened.

How far do you have to swim to achieve an equivalent distance running?

In general, it's about 4 to 1. Swimming 1500 meters is generally equivalent to running about 400 or 500 meters. It's not quite the same thing, so it is usually about 4 to 1. The effort is what's important too. If you were a national class swimmer and you were swimming 10,000 in the morning and swimming 8,000-10,000 in the afternoon, you were swimming 18,000 yards in 1 day. [That] would be fairly close to running the equivalent of 5 or 6 miles give or take.

For your heart and lungs though, the equivalent is priceless, especially if you are a runner and you don't swim very well - Holy [Moly] - you are really working your heart and lungs, you are working your VO2 max, you are working your lactate threshold to the point where you are really getting something out of that. The more proficient you get at swimming - especially distance swimming - it's more about technique than it is about working your heart and lungs.

How far do you have to ride (cycle) to achieve an equivalent distance running?

Let's say you're going to ride your bike the equivalent of a 20-mile run, you would need to ride 80-100 miles.

What injuries have you had?

Everything pretty much: shin splints, ankle sprains, hamstring strains, quad strains, hip discomfort, IT band and psoas problems. I could run through all those. Even with a sprained ankle, I would still run 3 or 4 miles. I would give it maybe half a day, and I'd ice it and then go run easy. I never had any problems handling any injury like that until I blew up my Achilles tendon. I never overcame that. The surgery in those days was not very good and I didn't have it and if I would have had it, I probably would be more beat up. Now I probably could have it and do ok. Any other injury I had I ran through. Would I let somebody else do that? No, because I don't think it's productive and I think it leads to something else.

You can't tell somebody who is running 85-110 to 120 miles per week that they're not going to run so you overcome it by running easy 2 or 3 miles and then you'd sit back on it. That is why I tried to run 4 miles on that Achilles tendon and that was it because you can't do that with that. Anything else I could generally run a couple miles on and be ok and it would work its way back to go again. I was pretty strong when it came to that kind of stuff, but the Achilles tendon [injury] was just the worst. I would never tell anybody to do that. I would tell people you know we need to take a couple days off; we need to be able to walk on the darn thing for 3 days, ice it, and in general I'd start back at 2 or 3 miles. I would not start at 10-12 miles on a sprained ankle, but I could get 2 or 3 in if it was a straight-hand motion. [I had] a lot of sprained ankles from running trails - Poly Canyon and all that stuff back in the day.

Mistakes? I probably would not do that again [run injured]. On the other hand, you look at it and say well, if I had to change anything, would I change it? I would have liked to run a hell of a lot longer, I would have liked to have been able to have continued running unbelievably fast, but the thing that I say about that is this very small infinitesimal thing that I understand all about running came from that time of being out and not being able to run. Watching people run that I used to beat all the time and now they are doing this and [that] and I'm there with a plastic air cast on my thing on crutches. So, it took a long time, but even with the mistakes that I made, that is why I became a coach and certainly I am a different type of coach that I would have been if everything would have gone great and I would never have gotten hurt. I might be telling people to run a 100 mpw and you’re a pansy if you can't do that and suck it up and go! I absolutely know that is not the way to make somebody a better runner.

What are thoughts on recovery

I believe big time - that recovery is as important as hard training. I didn't believe that when I was younger. When I started to coach and understand a few things [yes], but in my day - like I said - you didn't spend a lot of time thinking about how you were going to recover. You spent a lot of time thinking about how you were going to make your heart and lungs fitter and get your VO2 max up and run faster. What that meant back in the day was get out there and do it. Get after it. The more miles you were going to run, the faster you were going to be. The lighter you were, the faster you were going to be. That was the prevailing philosophy in the late '60s, '70s, and probably part of the early '80s. The lighter you were, you were going to be faster. The more miles you run, you're going to be faster. Unfortunately, a lot of people bought into that, and a lot of people suffered more than I did even. People like Mary Decker that had multiple surgeries and she started running at such a young age and so fast at such a young age.

Discuss sleep

Well, that was something that you were trying to get as much of as you could, but back in the day you had some signs of overtraining. I know I did where it was hard to get the sleep if you were running that much and it was hard to stay asleep when you are running that much. Sometimes you woke up because you were running at 5:30 [a.m.] and you are waking up at 5 or waking up at 4:45. So, we did not consider sleep as much as we should. I know I could've used a great deal more and I know that I suffered the effects of overtraining with regard to my sleep.

How many hours of sleep do you think you were getting?

Well, that's a really good question. When I was seriously training, we did not do a lot of going out. Only when I quit running and was hurt, and everything felt like crap, I went out with the guys and did a bunch of stuff. I certainly would have thought we were trying to get 7 or 8 hours. It wasn't 10. If you're overtraining, it's hard to get to sleep. You could say you're going to bed at 10 o'clock [at night] or 10:30 or whatever time, but you were probably not going to sleep well, or you were getting up at midnight or you would have some calf cramp that comes up or something else.

What are your thoughts on nutrition?

In my day we didn't have any nutrition. I remember seeing people eat a whole pizza by themselves, a half-gallon of ice cream by themselves, [and] wash that down with a couple of beers because you could get away with that if you were running 100 miles a week. You wouldn't put on weight. In fact, you would have to eat those calories just to keep the weight you were at. So, you figure that every mile was 100 calories - 100 x 100 - that was a hell of a lot of calories you're burning every day of the week! So, you didn't think much about nutrition.

Now, of course I'm significantly older, 63, and significantly heavier, [and] you wish you would have thought about that because [there comes] a point when your running career ends, and it is very hard to change those eating habits. It didn't catch up with me until I was probably 35 or 36, I could still do stuff like that and still be a pretty good weight and still go.

I'm glad there's much more of a concentration on nutrition now a days, but with that, a well-balanced diet beats going completely vegan, beats going completely whatever they call it now - the caveman diet [paleo] - but I think you have to be really smart in the middle. My thing on nutrition too though is absolutely moderation.

The more I read about it, the more I am really starting to believe blood type nutrition, where if you are a certain blood type, you can eat all the carbs you want and not much is going to happen to you, but if you are another blood type, you have to do this and that. I think everybody has to find their own middle ground just like they do their own mileage when it comes to nutrition and use your common sense and everything within reason.

If you're coaching young ladies, you got to be unbelievably smart. You better not be coming out there saying this is the formula, this is the only... I don't think it's a 63-year-old male coaches place to go out and give either fashion advice or necessarily weight information to younger ladies because you could say one sentence to somebody that you think makes sense and they are going to live with that for 10-15 years. I have never commented on a girl's weight. I think it is a smart deal. So, yes nutrition - do I know a lot about it? Not as much as I should.

What type of nutrition do you consider critical to your success?

Like I said, I ate anything. Everyone I ran with ate anything and everybody I ran with, ran pretty quick!

What are your doubts and how do you overcome them?

I didn't really have any. Maybe that was part of the problem that I didn't really have doubts. That is probably why I tried to run through a bunch of flipping stuff because I always thought I could do it. That is also why I had a really big crash when I was 19 years old because you realize - Well gee maybe I can't do this now and then you do start to have some doubts and then you have other things going on.

My way of overcoming them because of that serious injury was to become a coach. It took a long time to overcome that last deal [Achilles injury]. I didn't know a lot. I didn't really doubt stuff. I didn't spend a lot of time thinking - Gee I'm going to be here and there, this and that, but I was not necessarily at that other level that a lot of people that you are going to interview are at.

What challenges have you faced?

We have lots of challenges in life. We have to overcome those little, tiny injuries and of course that last injury that I could not overcome, that was a big challenge.

As a coach the challenges are trying to communicate to the athlete in a way that they are going to understand what you are telling them to do. People learn differently. Finding the language to do that, or the demonstration to do that or that type of thing - that is the real challenge of coaching. Getting someone to actually listen to you and being able to insert the message when you need to insert the message and actually have them get it and do it. I think every coach is still learning how to do that no matter what age with all different athletes.

How do you manage conflicting philosophies/opinions with coaches, sponsors, family, teammates?

That is a great question. I listen to what everyone has to say, and I try to listen with respect when somebody's talking about whatever their philosophy is. I try to listen well to their opinions, and I rarely will get into it with someone about their conflicting philosophy. If they ask about what I think, I will tell them, but I have learned despite speaking about something, you can't necessarily change someone's opinion about what they are going to do or how they are going to do it. If I have a conflict with a sponsor, they're generally no longer a sponsor. I never had a conflict about my profession with my family [or my] teammates. We were pretty much on the same page.

With the people I coach - if I have an athlete that has a different philosophy - I will again try to find different ways to either explain what we're doing, or it turns into a learn by doing thing which I don't really enjoy. Generally, what will happen - a kid or an athlete - will try it a different way and they will realize they are not getting any better, any faster, any stronger or they're getting hurt. Usually, the light goes on when that happens, but I don't like to see somebody get hurt to have them understand what we are talking about. I don't really want somebody to go up to burning hot red stove and have to suffer a fifth degree burn before they realize the stove is hot. Some people unfortunately have to do that.

In general, conflicting philosophies or opinions with coaches - you are not going to last very long in the coaching profession - if you are not at least in general on the same page because you are either going to hurt so many athletes or so many of the other people are going to stop coming to you. So that is a really good question and I do try to get along as best as I can with people that have conflicting philosophies, but you know that I tend to have a very strong personality at times so there comes a point where I tell the person you're going to need somebody else. I'm not going to be the guy for you because I know what sort of coach I am, and I can tell what kind of runner that person is.

I get a lot of kids who will say - well, I don't care about running at [age] 23 or 24 or 30 - I just want to run fast now. In my opinion any jack*** can make somebody fast quick. We can do 2-a-days, we can run hills, we can do this and that, we can ice, and take ibuprofen - whatever it takes to keep you out and you'll be fast for a certain period of time. The problem is you'll be hurt for the rest of your life. I don't think I had this conversation with some of my kids. I don't think it benefits you to win a CIF championship if you're not going be able to run in college for the University of Oregon, run for Stanford, or you're not going get a chance to run for Wisconsin, but you set all these records in high school - I don't think it's worth it.

The role of a good coach is to be looking out for the welfare of that athlete’s future and make sure they can still run. It's not about getting your own name in the newspaper week after week, and I think some people forget that.

Describe and discuss your support team.

Well, my family didn't believe in running - at least my parents didn't. This family that I have believes in running - the one that I made on my own. They [my parents] thought it was fairly frivolous at times. I had a good talk with Linda Prefontaine about how her mother especially thought it was a little frivolous for him too [Steve Prefontaine].

You know the coaching in those days wasn't as great. I can point to one coach I had that made a big difference in my life, but there were a lot of coaches going off what they read in a book back in the day or what had worked for them and did what worked for them. [My] teammates were great. Absolutely everyone I ever ran with as a teammate was just great. Most of your friends were your teammates or other people who ran. Most of the people that were friends outside of that did not fully understand why you couldn't do what they were doing - go waterskiing or have something like that going on.

So, I think if I had to pick a number [from] 1 to 10 with 10 being the best support team, I probably had about a 6.5 or 7 if you factor everything in - which is not that bad. You have to believe in what you can do and can't let others affect what you think or else you find yourself in a pecking order and think to yourself - Well gee I should not be getting beat by that guy.

How did you support yourself?

In those days if you were going to support yourself, you were working in a shoe store or you were working in an athletic store or you were working in the old man's paint store. I knew a lot of Olympians. My father would tell me stories from England about the butcher who was a 10,000-meter runner in the 19-- whatever it was '20s or '30s Olympic Games and watching that guy have to work all day on his feet as a butcher and then go out and run after work at night. He'd be running again in the morning before he'd start. My dad had a couple of stories about that in England back in the day. We are talking about the '20s/'30s/'40s how that would work. I know here that a lot of people had other jobs - in fact Jack Foster was a mailman or something crazy like that. This was a guy who went to the Olympic Games when he was [40] and he finished [8th] in the Olympic Games marathon. So, in those days you did what you had to do to support yourself - preferably you would like to have a job where you could go out and do your 2-a-days, in some cases 3-a-days, or long run days and you did not have to stand all day [at work]. Some of these guys went out and they purposefully got jobs as a mailman or something [similar], but to me that is silly at least now knowing this sort of thing, but everybody had to support themselves. Unless you were some of the top tier guys and even in the later ‘70s they weren't getting very much, but they would get something under the table if they went to a big track meet, but that was not the stratosphere I was living in certainly at that point.

Who were your biggest influences?

I had a couple coaches that were great. Of course, one in particular who was great. I ran with a kid in high school - his name was Rod MacDonald - and he was running 4:18/4:19 in the days when spikes weren't very good. We had cotton sweats, we had crappy tracks and crappy shoes and crappy everything else. He was the first one who really got me going. He said I think you can be really good at this and that. We would run every Monday or Wednesday or Friday or whatever day it was -- we would go into our Math teacher's room, who was the cross-country coach at the high school - and he would have all the track and field news. It would arrive whenever, and Runner's World would arrive whenever (this was when Runner's World was still a decent magazine with actual real running). We would run in there and read all about what was going on in the track and field world.

Of course, my earliest idols were guys like Steve Prefontaine and Bowerman and all the guys from New Zealand (Arthur Lydiard, Van Aaken). Mainly Bowerman, Lydiard, Prefontaine--and anything that was going up in Oregon--Dellinger--any of those guys that were up there at that time because they were unbelievably smarter than the average cookie and producing people on less mileage at least up there.

Bowerman's training was hard-easy? Yes. Well Bowerman traveled to New Zealand very early in the late '50s, early '60s with his 4x1 mile team that set a record in the United States and then went over there [to New Zealand], but of course probably got whopped by a country of 3 million people. That is when he started running himself when he went over there.

Lydiard was the one who coined the term "jogging." He was the one who had people out there running of all ages and still had this going on when I taught and coached over there at Cornwall Park in Auckland, New Zealand. He would have a couple 100 or 400 people out there on a Sunday running, 80-year-olds all the way down to guys and girls like Anne Audain (an elite runner), that were tremendous runners for him. Everybody mixed and everybody ran and that is how I got the idea to start what we do on Sundays [with SLO Roadrunners] and it was pretty cool. Lydiard was more the one who talked about building a huge base before you start to do speed work, hill repeats, or run 100 mpw. That is where most people got the [the idea to do] 100 mpw. He even had Peter Snell who is an 800-meter runner running 100 mpw.

So, the balance between Lydiard and what Bowerman was preaching was what I always was trying to strive for as a coach - to get in that middle ground someplace - and actually understand that you have to treat people as individuals. So, you can tell somebody, "Hey I want you to run 100 mpw, I want you to run 95 mpw or 120 mpw," but what works for one person is not necessarily what is going work for another person, and you could see people doing that and think ok - I need to do that.

I always go back to baseball when I was a kid. As a kid you'd always try out the best hitter's stance. You'd go out and place a ball or hold your bat a certain way and you'd hit like crap. You need to find out what is going to help you and not try to imitate someone else. It goes for running very much - you have to find the mileage that works for you, the speed work that works for you, the fartlek that works for you and not try and do what everybody else is doing. The biggest influence probably in my life was probably Arthur Lydiard without question.

Who was your biggest role model?

Of course my biggest role model was my dad because he got up at 6 o'clock [in the morning] and worked from about 730 [am] to 7 every night. He had a work ethic that you couldn't believe and was a really great teacher. He was really really great at teaching people different things. I wish I had his patience at times. Biggest role model in running would be Bill Bowerman without question.

Best advice?

There's so much when you get to be an older dude and you have been running for a while, but probably the best advice I've ever heard is that there are only 3 ways you can get hurt and that is by running too fast too soon, too far too soon, or doing both of those things at the same time with really bad technique.

Worst advice?

There's no technique in distance running. Everybody lands on their heels, and you just work on their heart and lungs. That was not just a coach or one person saying that to me, I had hundreds of people saying that to me from the 1977-78 period until probably 15 years ago I don't hear it as much. I would often say, "Well you mean distance running is the only sport in the world where there's no technique?" Usually, they wouldn't have much to say, or I'd say let's go in and watch how Jim Ryun hits the ground, how Liquori hits the ground, how Walker hits the ground or Pre hits the ground. Let's take a look at what they’re doing for good and for bad. [Their response:] "Oh, well they’re just naturals." Well, I found over 45 years of coaching now, some athletes are very fast and there are a lot of age groupers and hey you can teach people how to do that! I probably only found about 4 or 5 percent of the population who can't learn technique or they have such a problem with their feet that they are not going to land where you want them to land.

What do you do outside of running?

Well I do a lot outside of running now, but in the day, I didn't do anything outside of running. When I was forced to quit running, it was the most miserable time of my life ever and there was no substitute for it. When running is your life, swimming is not going to cut it, riding a bike is not going to cut, lifting weights is not going to cut it. Lawn bowling certainly is not going to cut it, but once you get used to that as a fairly balanced individual now who just coaches - I love photography, I did used to swim all the time, I love spending time with my family. There is a lot of stuff I like to do now, but I did not have a life outside of running in those days for several years. That was it. If you were not going to run - in fact a lot of guys I ran with in high school in particular, would not run with me anymore. You would want to run with them on a vacation and you would run too far or too fast [and] they did not want to do that. If I had been smart enough [and] a little bit more running mature, I would have slowed down and did a 5-mile run with them instead of saying - OK, if you don't want to run that pace, we are not running. And again, these are some of the guys that were my biggest supporters.

Best book, magazine, source of information?

There are really too many sources of information I think nowadays all saying a whole bunch of different things. The best source of information is someone that you trust, someone with experience, and someone who has a proven track record of working with people - not necessarily an article that you read in Runner's World by a personal trainer or something that you see online.

With magazines it's whatever the flavor of the month is nowadays. I got a lot of people [who came] to me years ago because they were getting hurt on this program that said run Monday and Wednesday only for half an hour-40 minutes and then go and do your long run on a Saturday or Sunday. That's how they train for a marathon and [they thought they could] stay healthy [doing that]. I got a lot of people from that.

I've read several of Lydiard's books that were good like Running to the Top. I also liked Van Aaken's book, and he was about long, slow distance, but he also coached a lot of people who were unbelievably fast. Most of the stuff that I enjoyed the most was probably the stuff that Bowerman wrote and the things that he talked about. Lydiard was great, there is a lot of good stuff that Lydiard wrote. The Jack Daniels stuff is good, but I think that you can't rely on one book. I think if you read 6 or 7 books by the best coaches in the world, I think that is how you start to formulate your own philosophy on how you're going to do things. I think if you put all those guys together including Jeff Galloway you come up with a pretty good plan of attack--again on how you're going to work with different types of people. If you understand where Bowerman came from, Lydiard came from, and Percy Cerutty came from, [you can learn a lot from them]. I think there's 5 or 6 coaches that you really have to trust and get to know their philosophy. I think if you read through that, something good comes out of it. It's like saying whether Hemingway is better than Tolstoy or Tolstoy is better than Hunter Thompson--there is a whole bunch of different stuff there, but they were all pretty good writers, and they can all inspire you to do pretty wonderful things perhaps.

I've read Bowerman and the Men of Oregon. That's a great book. I do recommend that. It's a fun book to read by Kenny Moore. The guy that directs the Pre Classic [Tom Jordan]- I've read his book [Pre: the Story of America's Greatest Running Legend, Steve Prefontaine] a couple times - that was about Pre.

The books that I find to be really stupid are the ones that are generally written by triathlon coaches on running or some of the stuff I find in Runner's World that is just absolutely ridiculous [including] the pictures I see in Runner's World (maybe it's changed now) [with] models on the cover landing on their heels and over-striding. Nothing good really can come out of that I found as a coach

California International Marathon December 2, 2018

What kind of impact/influence do you have on others? What would you like it to be?

Well you have to ask other people about that!

What would you like it to be? That's a good question! Well, I tell most of the high school kids I coach - I want you to be able to run until you are as old as you want to run. I want you to be healthy and able to run for as long as you want to run. I also want to be the sort of coach that you look back and say, "Boy that was fantastic how he did that for me in high school and I can still run, and I did this in high school, and I ran well!" If I see them in the grocery store, I want to go up and talk to them again - say, "Hi" to them and be nice to them.

I do know coaches that don't have that going on, but - they are in the frozen food section, and someone wants to go over and yell at them. In fact, I've had several guys that I know just at the last reunion if they see one of those guys, they do get on them - and that is when you should not be in coaching - if it is going to be about you and not about the impact you have on others - and it better be a positive impact - you need to look for another line of work.

I think it's mostly up to other people to decide what sort of influence you have on them. You're always hoping that it's a positive influence or that you did something that they are going to remember for the rest of their lives in a really great way.

Who would you like to thank?

Well, you have to thank your parents. For me - I have to thank all those guys that I ran with along the way that were just so great. A guy like Rod MacDonald - he didn't have to slow down and run with me when I was starting out, but he did, and he was the best on the team. He was the one who influenced me into thinking that if the best guy on the team could take the time out to do this for somebody that he thinks has a little bit of ability - everybody should be doing it on the team - slowing down for somebody who is back there running.

Was he the person that stopped to looked at the view? Absolutely! He is absolutely, the one who stopped to look at the view. He still ran fast and was very ahead of his time. He was a major influence on my life.

There was a guy we called Coach Prijatel - who was a major influence on my life - and his last name may have been Friend. Again, when you talk about the influence that he had on others when he passed away at 94 years old - the entire mission church was filled on a weekday for his service and it was not just athletes, it was all sorts of people whose lives he had touched. It was the coolest thing ever. I have not to this day been to a funeral that was that big with that many people. If you can accomplish that in your life, you are doing something right.

Thank you, Roger Warnes, for the interview. Your experiences both as an athlete and a coach are influential and we are grateful for you. —Cathleen Willy